Where's TFM?!

Post by **kenhamilton** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:58 pm

It's been 4 months since I purchased Primal Forms and there is still no official manual.I appreciate the spotlight blog posts but at this rate we will be on to the next version before all the controls are covered and there is no comprehensive coverage on the interface itself such as the debugger, panels, packaging etc. What I'm most unhappy about are the nonexistent updates on when or if it will ever be available.I was further dismayed when this exact question was raised during the recent power-scripting podcast interview and all we heard were some excuses about time and resources, how hard it is to write documentation etc. My interpretation of this was you were basically admitting that it wasn't really considered a high priority during development and there was no clear plan on how to address it.That said I think the application is the best winforms powershell tool out there but it is extremely frustrating to have to constantly google around and translate C# examples and the .net library trying to figure out what I can and can't do in this app. I would expect this from an open source project where for one it's free and second there is an understanding that it's a work in progress that is only as good as the community input.I find this unacceptable for a commercial product.Will there be a manual this year?
kenhamilton2011-08-11 20:59:39

Post by **Alexander Riedel** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:14 pm

Since you are unhappy with the product, please feel free to submit your license key to sales@sapien.com for a refund.

Post by **kenhamilton** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:33 pm

Hi Alexander,That is not what i asked for. Despite the rant above I'm not actually criticizing the tool itself and apart from a few bugs that have been fixed in fairly short order, I am making use of it, would like to continue using it and want to make full use of it in the future. I would like and as a paying customer believe I deserve an answer and preferably a commitment to the release schedule for the official documentation. If that is not forthcomming then I may have to seriously consider your offer as it speaks to Sapien's commitment to the continued support of this product. Again it's not what I want but it does bother me that you are so quick to show me the door.

Post by **Ferdinand Rios** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:35 am

Ken,

It is an unfortunate reality the the manual for PrimalForms 2011 has fallen through the cracks. We have had a difficult time finding good technical writers to complete that project, and we continue to push for that project's completion. I am sorry to say that we do not have a date for that.

SAPIEN is completely committed to the continued support of this product. We are doing our best and we hate to disappoint customers, but sometimes we have to battle situations that are not fully under our control.

Sincerely,
Ferdinand Rios
CEO SAPIEN Technologies.frios2011-08-18 11:12:34

Post by **R1Johnny** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:15 am

I must say, having just purchased this product, it does absolutely nothing for me without the documentation. Even the sample code has no commenting in it to offer guidance. I can't even begin to write the most fundamental script.I NEED THE DOCUMENTATION!!!!How about if you give us whatever you have? Anything? I don't care how pretty it is. I need details.I bought the product and the upgrade assurance and can't do a thing with it.I am EXTREMELY frustrated!!!!!

Post by **Ferdinand Rios** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:58 am

OK. Let me clarify something here. We can make the 2009 version of the PrimalForms help file available which will help you with a great deal of product FUNCTIONALITY.

But from what I understand from your message above, you "can't even begin to write the most fundamental script." If this is an issue of not knowing how to script (my assumption from your statement), that is a different issue. PrimalForms will not teach you how to script and its documentation will not help. Depending on what type of scripting you want to do, we can recommend books and or videos which will teach you how to script and you can use PrimalForms to write them.

Again, this is an assumption on my part based on your message and I apologize ahead of time if this assumption is incorrect.

I will discuss with the development team the possibility of making the PrimalForms 2009 Help File available for download.

Thank you.

frios2011-08-18 11:11:24

Post by **davidc** » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:51 am

You can download PrimalForms 2009 Help Documentation from our Downloads section, under support files. David

Post by **Ferdinand Rios** » Fri Aug 19, 2011 3:38 am

Generally speaking, for any object you create visually (controls, etc.) an automatic variable with the same name is created for you. So if you create a text box on screen and you name it MyTextBox, then PrimalForms will automatically create a variable to represent that object called $MyTextBox. As a matter of fact, if you then rename that object, PrimalForms will rename all instances of the variable for you in your script.

You can use or assign values to any property of an object by using dot notation. For example, to get the text from a text box, you would do the following:

$userString = $MyTextBox.text

Where $userString is a variable we just created.

To assign a value just flip it around:

$MyTextBox.text = "This is sample text"

All very simple. Of course, you have to learn what properties every object has. These are listed in the Property Tab on the right when you select the object. You can assign properties in the property tab (more static) and also dynamically assign them in code.

Objects also have Methods on them and those can be called using dot notation as well and the return values of those methods can be assigned to variables. Whenever you use an object name in code, as soon as you press "." PrimalForms should drop down a list of all of the method and properties available to you. Also, you can google these standard controls and find lots of references to their properties and methods.

Hope that helps somewhat.frios2011-08-19 10:40:18

Post by **John.Delise** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:06 am

I to am disappointed with the lack of comphrensive documentation for the Sapien Suite of products, particularly Primal Script and Primal Forms. I think a statement on this is overdue. This is more than an individual complaint. There are to many free alternatives for PrimalScript particularly in the PowerShell area. Perhaps these alternatives are not as powerful in some ways, but for a relativly new language that has the ability with Primal Forms to be a strong development environment, not just at the shell level but as a GUI development environment the lack of great docs leaves out the legions of new scripters that wish to climb the learning curve. Sapien has fallen and can't get up! Your installed base will carry you just so long, the new user base must be encourged. As Otto Von Bismark once said, "Those who do not learn from the mistakes of the past, are doomed to repeat them" Good luck folks, you are going to need it.

Post by **Ferdinand Rios** » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:15 am

We have already made public apologies regarding the delays in producing documentation and are working as hard and as fast as we to correct that issue. The fact is that the writers we contracted with to produce this documentation have let us down and we are doing our bets to get it finished and in the hands of our users.